Karl was an average twelve-year old boy, full of curiosity about all aspects of life… but lately he had become more and more fascinated with the topic of sex. Which is why (with no exact plan in mind), he had snuck into his parents’ bedroom while they were out grocery shopping. He didn’t really know why he was doing it, he just was. He started with the night tables— maybe there was something to discover there. He was quite titillated by the discovery of two condoms. If there had been more, he might have dared to open one up to look at it. He then turned his attention to the dresser. He was disappointed that it contained nothing but clothes and underwear.

His next try found him peering under the bed. No luck. He sat back on his heels and looked around the room. The closet, of course, he thought. He opened the spacious walk-in and scanned the interior. His mom and dad’s shoes were neatly lined up on the floor or in hanging racks. Sweaters and other clothing were neatly piled on the shelves. There didn’t seem to be much of interest here, either. Then, he saw the two large cardboard boxes on the top shelf. They seemed out of place—everything else was either out in the open or stored in clear plastic containers. He had to stand on tiptoe to get the first box down. He carried it to the bed and opened it. What the…? He cocked his head to the side trying to comprehend what he was looking at. Why are mom and dad storing my old baby diapers and plastic baby pants? A noise in the garage alerted him that his parents had returned home. He hurriedly returned the box to the shelf and ambled innocently into the kitchen asking his parents if they had bought anything good to eat.

Three days later, he was again by himself. His mind wandered back to the box and he soon found himself on tiptoe taking it down again. His parents wouldn’t be home for quite some time so he brought it into his bedroom. He removed the lid and picked up the baby pants. They were semi-transparent green and imprinted with baby turtles, crabs, and other sea creatures. He unfolded them and was amazed at how big they were. Turning toward the mirror, he held them up to his waist. These could still fit me today. To prove the point, he kicked off his shoes and pulled up the plastic pants over his regular pants. The plastic pants still fit a little bit loosely. He couldn’t figure it out.

He decided to go back and get the second box. He giggled at the crinkly-swishing sounds the plastic pants made as he walked. Back in his bedroom, he opened up the second box. A photo album sat on top. He opened it to a full-page picture of his dad and his Uncle Steve (his dad’s younger brother) taken when they were about eleven and nine and-a-half respectively. I’m sure glad we don’t wear clothes like that anymore! His dad (wearing a striped t-shirt and bright yellow corduroy overalls) and his uncle (wearing a similar striped t-shirt and red corduroy overalls) were pictured kneeling in front of a Christmas tree.

He flipped the page and received the biggest shock of his life. His dad and uncle were pictured in front of the same Christmas tree wearing their striped t-shirts but without their overalls. He could scarcely believe his eyes: they were wearing matching baby-print diapers and nearly transparent white plastic pants. Are they being punished? He turned back and forth several times between the first and second pages. His father and uncle were smiling and seemed very content in both pictures. He turned to another page and found snapshots taken on the same Christmas day. From these, he deduced that there had been a family gathering at his grandparent’s house. He recognized his great-grandparents (whom he never knew), grandparents, and some of his dad and Uncle Steve’s cousins, aunts, and uncles. He further deduced that his dad and uncle must have spent the greater part of the day wearing their diapers and plastic pants exposed. There were several shots of them in their diapers playing with a train set and then with a pinball machine. The last thing that struck him was that no one in the pictures seemed the least bit surprised or uncomfortable about his father and uncle being in diapers.

He looked down at the plastic pants he had on. A thought occurred to him that he couldn’t accept. He put the photo album down and took out a diaper from the first box. It was very large. He sniffed it. It didn’t have a stale smell like something that had been put away for a long time. On the contrary, it smelled just the clothes in his own bureau. There could be no doubt: this was his father’s diaper and it had been recently laundered. His dad still wore diapers!

He looked down again at the green plastic pants he wore over his regular pants. He giggled at the idea of his dad being diapered like a baby. For some unknown reason, he began feeling aroused. This scared him so he quickly took off the baby pants and laid them on his bed. He went back to the photo album. He was about halfway through it when he realized that he was still very aroused. He put the baby pants back on over his pants and felt his arousal increase even further. This time it didn’t scare him—in fact, it felt really good.

By the time he finished the album, he had seen his dad and uncle grow up in diapers. He estimated that his dad must have been about nineteen or twenty in the last pictures. There wasn’t a picture in which his dad and uncle were not wearing diapers. (Even when they were wearing pants, there was a telltale bulge around their middles.) He was astounded by how open they had been about it. While most of the pictures depicted family gatherings, there were also a number of pictures taken with kids their own age who were not family members (as far as Karl knew). There didn’t seem to be anywhere that they didn’t wear their diapers. There were pictures of them camping, hiking, hanging out in their backyard, at the family’s mountain cabin, playing basketball, at barbecues, and many other places he couldn’t identify.

He realized that his parents would be home soon so he packed up the boxes (but delayed taking off the baby pants as long as possible) and put them back on the shelf.

*****

That night, Karl’s dad was extremely tired. He undressed and got into bed.

“No didees tonight?” his wife asked.

“No, I’m really beat. I just want to get to sleep.”

“OK. Night night, baby.”

“Night night, mommy.”

She kissed him on the forehead and tucked in his blanket before getting into her side of the bed.

*****

The whole next day, Karl was distracted by thoughts of the picture album. The pictures kept replaying themselves over and over in his head. It was really quite embarrassing that he had to hide his almost constant state of arousal. He would die if someone noticed. Nonetheless, he couldn’t wait to get home from school and have another look.

He was very disappointed to find his mother home ahead of him.

“I had two appointments that cancel, so I thought I’d come home early and fix a nice dinner,” she explained.

“Cool,” he answered as upbeat as possible.

He went up to his room to get his homework done. It was a struggle, but not because the homework was hard— he couldn’t get his mind off the diaper pictures.

That evening, his dad decided that he would ‘relax’ when he got home. This meant changing out of his suit and tie and putting on a daytime diaper without plastic pants. This was typical when he was ‘relaxing’ with Karl at home. The daytime diaper was thin enough to conceal under his pants but the crinkling of plastic pants would have been a dead giveaway. It wasn’t his favorite way to ‘relax’ but it was better than nothing.

He took the box down from the shelf and opened it, removed a diaper and laid it on the bed. Just before closing up the box he stopped and picked up his green ‘turtle’ pants. They weren’t folded correctly. He always started by folding the crotch up to the waistband and then folding the left and right side to the middle. He cast his mind back to Sunday night when he had last put these things away. He shrugged and folded the plastic pants in the usual way. He put it out of his mind and prepared to diaper himself.

He retrieved four pins from a glass jar by the bathroom sink and a container of baby powder from his wife’s medicine cabinet. He powdered himself lightly and then pinned himself into the cotton prefold diaper. Even after all these years, he felt the tensions of the day drain from his body; a smile rose to his lips and he wished that he and his wife could have had some time alone right then and there. He went down to the kitchen to see if his wife needed help.

‘Hi baby,” she said as he wrapped his arms around her waist from behind and kissed her neck.

“Do you think we can get rid of the kid for a few minutes?” he whispered suggestively.

“Henry, be serious,” she said turning around, a smile on her face. Then, noting the twinkle in his eye, she reached around him and patted his bottom. “Ah ha!” she said chuckling. “Sorry, dinner is ready but we can follow up on that thought soon… real soon.”

“That’s a promise?” he asked with mock seriousness.

“A promise and a deal,” she responded.

When they went to bed that night, the promise was kept. She started out unpinning him from his diaper and. after some mutually satisfying sex, she took charge and got him ready for bed. She retrieved a nighttime diaper and some plastic pants from the box and returned to the bedroom.

“Oh, that reminds me,” Henry said. “Did you go into the box yesterday or today, Madge?”

“Why, no. Why do you ask?”

“Nothing important,” he said as she washed his diaper area. “That feels really good!”

His mind was now focused entirely on his wife’s attentions to him. At the moment, improperly folded plastic pants were one of the least of his concerns.

*****

On Friday, it happened again. Karl’s father came home from work and noticed that, this time, his yellow teddy bear plastic pants were folded incorrectly. He again asked his wife if she had moved or touched anything in his diaper box.

“That’s the second time you ask. What’s up?”

“You’ll probably say that I’m overreacting but I believe that Karl knows about my diapers and plastic pants,” he answered. “Twice now, I’ve found my plastic pants folded in a way that I’m sure I have never folded them.”

“Oh dear,” she said. “I suppose that you’re sure…?”

“Yes, I’m sure. I’m going to call Steve (his brother) and Helen (his sister-in-law) and find out if we can talk this over with them later tonight. OK?”

“I think that that would be a good idea.”

*****

The adults retired to the den while Karl went in search of his cousin Peter whom he found at the computer in his bedroom.

“Hey,” Peter greeted his cousin. “What’s doing?”

“I don’t know,” Karl answered.

He wasn’t in a pleasant mood. When his parents had mentioned that they were going to visit his Uncle Steve, Aunt Helen, and cousin Peter, he had answered that he saw his cousin at school all the time. His parents, however would have none of it, saying that it wasn’t good for him to be alone so much: that he hadn’t visited his uncle and aunt in several weeks and that he needed to socialize more. His reluctance stemmed from the fact that he wanted to look at the diaper book (as he now called the photo album) again. Also, there was something comforting and exciting about wearing the oversized baby pants— even if they fit only when he wore them over his regular pants.

“What are you doing?” Karl asked, peering over his cousin’s shoulder at the monitor.

“I was looking around for stuff for a science project I have to do.”

“What kind of stuff?”

“Stuff about the weather. It’s kind of boring.”

“Yeah.”

There was a long silence that Karl eventually broke.

“Can I tell you a secret?”

“Sure,” Peter answered. “Did you do something to get yourself into trouble?”

“Not exactly. It’s about my dad and your dad.”

“What about them?” Peter asked with heightened interest.

“Well, I found this photo album in a place I wasn’t supposed to be and it was filled with pictures of our dads when they were growing up.”

Karl hesitated, unsure it Peter would get upset if he told him the truth.

“Well?” Peter prodded impatiently.

“You’re probably not going to believe me,” Karl hedged, “… but… well… I mean…”

“For crying Clive’s sake,” Peter said impatiently, “did you find the pictures of our dads in their diapers and baby pants?”

“You already know!” Karl shouted in surprise. “How come you never told me?”

“Well, my dad and mom said that I had to keep it a secret. They said that your dad would tell you if he wanted you to know.”

“How did you find out?” Karl asked.

“One night, last summer, I woke up feeling really bad. I went to my parents’ door and knocked. They didn’t hear me so I went in. My dad woke up and I told him I felt sick. He forgot that he was wearing a baby shirt, diapers, and baby pants. When he turned on the light I saw them.”

Karl’s eyes were still wide with amazement. “What did he do?”

“He turned real red in the face and then laughed,” Peter giggled.

“He laughed?”

“Sure,” Peter answered. “What else could he do? It was too late to hide them. He knew I had busted him.” Peter giggled again. “Anyway, he gave me some stomach medicine and he asked if I wanted to talk about his diapers. I wasn’t sleepy anymore so he put on some pajama bottoms and we went to the den. I was kind of nervous and curious at the same time. I thought that my dad would get mad at me because I started laughing every time I looked at him. Even though he had put on pajamas bottoms, they were real puffy because of his diapers and his baby pants made loud crinkly noises. Anyway, he let me see his photo album with all the pictures of him and your dad.”

“Do you think I could see the book someday?”

“Sure, why not?” Peter answered. “It’s not hidden or anything. Let me get it.”

Peter returned in a matter of seconds.

“Here, let’s sit on the floor” he said extending the book to Karl.

Karl eagerly took the book and they sat together at the foot of the bed. The first two pages were exactly like the book Karl had already seen. After that, though, the pictures were different, although taken at many of the same gatherings as in his father’s album.

“Did your dad tell you why they wore diapers?” Karl asked.

“Um, I think that my dad and your dad ought to tell you that,” Peter answered. “It’s not that I don’t want to tell you,” he said defensively, “it’s just that I’m not supposed to.”

Karl’s head was reeling from all this new information. He continued flipping through the album, smiling at some of the pictures as he went along.

“You like looking at these, don’t you?” Peter asked.

Karl felt his face heat up.

“It’s OK,” Peter quickly added. “I do, too.”

“Do you ever think about wearing diapers?” Karl asked in a barely audible whisper.

In lieu of an answer, Peter stood up and kicked off his shoes and dropped his pants, revealing the flannel prefold diaper he was wearing. Karl’s eyes nearly popped out of his head. His hand went up instinctively to touch the diaper as if to check if it was real. He realized what he has doing and quickly lowered his hand.

“It’s OK,” Peter said, “you can touch it. And,” he added with a giggle, “don’t worry, it’s dry.”

Karl gingerly touched the lower edge of the diaper and withdrew his hand.

“You’re not wearing plastic pants,” Karl observed.

“These are just my pretend diapers,” Peter answered.

“Huh? They look real.”

“What I mean is that they are real diapers but too thin to hold much pee. I wear these under my pants when I don’t want anyone to know that I’m wearing diapers.”

“Oh,” Karl said, still confused.

Peter walked into his closet and emerged a few seconds later holding another diaper and semi-transparent yellow plastic pants decorated with brown teddy bears.

“My dad has a pair like that,” Karl said, referring to the plastic pants.

“So does my dad. In fact, we each have two pairs. Anyways,” Peter continued, “this is a regular daytime diaper. See how much thicker it is? I wear this kind of diaper a lot around the house… with plastic pants, of course. Why don’t you try wearing one,” Peter suggested “And plastic pants, too.”

“I don’t know. What would my parents think?”

“Well,” Peter answered reasonably, “your dad couldn’t get mad about it, could he?”

“But, he’ll know that I was spying on him and that I found his picture album,” Karl worried.

“Not necessarily. We could say that you saw my diapers and plastic pants and that I convinced you to try them,” Peter countered.

“I guess that would be OK,” Karl agreed.

While Karl was trying to hide his enthusiasm for the idea, Peter had no such inhibitions. He excitedly gathered the rest of the things they needed: pins and baby powder from the bathroom, and a changing pad from under the bed.

“You’re going to have to take your clothes off, you know,” Peter pointed out.

Karl was already regretting his decision.

“Maybe I should wait and tell my parents before I do this,” he said.

“Why?”

“I don’t know. Maybe they’ll get mad.”

“You know that’s not the real reason,” Peter said knowingly. “You have a stiffie, don’t you?”

Peter looked at the floor, shame written all over his face.

“Don’t worry about it. I do, too. It happens all the time when I think about diapers. But, don’t worry about it—this diaper is really thick and it won’t show. Now, come on—quit stalling.”

Karl undressed and lay down on the diaper his cousin had spread out on the floor. He couldn’t help but giggle when Peter rubbed the powder over his diaper area. He hadn’t known exactly how he would feel getting pinned into a diaper, but he certainly had not expected the overwhelming sense of security that came over him. He was speechless by the time the plastic pants were pulled over his diaper.

“Cool, huh?” Peter asked brightly.

Karl was still searching for words but the look of contentment on his face said everything that he couldn’t. He walked over to the dresser to see himself in the mirror. This was so much better than wearing his dad’s plastic pants over his regular pants.

“Now, you gotta help me get into a daytime diaper, too!” Peter said enthusiastically.

Peter could have put on his own diaper without help but he wanted to teach Karl as much stuff about diapers as possible. He reasoned that Karl would have to learn these things sooner or later… and that sooner was always better than later when talking about diapers!

“Let’s change shirts and then we’ll be done,” Peter suggested as soon as he had pulled up his plastic pants

He took two yellow t-shirts out of his dresser.

“Which one do you want to wear?” he asked, unfolding them.

One sported an embroidered panda bear and the other a tugboat. Karl chose the boat.

“Aren’t these too short?” he asked.

“No,” Peter explained. “We don’t want to cover up our plastic pants, do we? Besides, our moms will need to see when our diapers are wet, right?”

“I guess so,” Karl answered unconvinced. “But why does there have to be so much space between the bottom of the shirts and the top of our pants?”

Peter ignored the question.

“Come on, let’s go downstairs and show our parents.”

“Right now?” Karl exclaimed. “Can’t we wait a few minutes?”

“No,” Peter answered firmly. “It’ll be better if we go downstairs on our own before our parents call us down.”

Actually, the real reason he was being insistent was that he wanted to get Karl downstairs before he chickened out. He was sure that Karl would thank him for it later.

Karl glanced down at the smiling faces of his dad and uncle in the photo album and said, “OK, let’s do it.”

“You won’t be sorry,” Peter promised. Then, following his cousin’s gaze, he added, “I’d better put this away. You’re not supposed to know about these pictures.”

*****

For the better part of an hour, the adults had discussed the situation. They had concluded early on that if Karl had been into the contents of the first box (and they all agreed with Henry that that was a virtual certainty), then he must have also seen the photo album in the second. The question was whether to confront Karl directly about it or to wait for an opportune moment to ‘catch’ him at it.

“I don’t like the idea of baiting Karl,” his mom said. “I think it’s wrong to set up a situation and then swoop down on him like some kind of vice squad.”

“I agree with Madge,” Helen said. “Maybe it would be better to set up a situation where Karl could come and ask you about your diaper wearing.”

“How?” Henry asked.

“Oh, I don’t know. Perhaps you could ‘accidentally’ let Karl see you wearing them, like Steve did.”

“Now wait a minute,” Steve answered his wife good-naturedly. “That really was an accident.”

“Was it?” she teased. “Didn’t Freud say that ‘accidents’ don’t really happen?”

“Be that as it may,” Henry interjected before they got sidetracked, “wouldn’t we still be manipulating Karl?”

“Technically, I suppose so,” Helen answered, “but at least he wouldn’t be the one ‘on the spot’ so to speak. You would be.”

“Yeah, I guess I would,” Henry said blushing.

“Come on, Henry,” his brother coaxed. “You were always too timid. Be daring—let Karl ‘catch’ you in your diapers. It wasn’t such a bad experience once Peter and I talked it over. In fact, as you know, since then we’ve been closer than ever.”

“Care to join me in being ‘caught’?” Henry asked his brother.

“No, thanks. Once is enough.”

“I guess you’re right,” his brother agreed. “Besides, ‘catching’ his dad in diapers will be shock enough without involving his uncle, too.”

“Aren’t we missing something here?” Madge asked. “Is it necessarily true that Karl will be upset if he catches you in diapers? If he was going to be upset it would have happened when he discovered the album, right?”

“OK,” Henry agreed. “But what’s your point?”

“I don’t know,” Madge answered. “I just think that you’re making more out of this than Karl will. Who knows how long ago he first saw the album? Isn’t it possible that he’s completely recovered from any shock he may have felt?”

“Good point,” Helen agreed. “Maybe we’re overreacting…”

Whatever she was going to say got cut off by Peter calling down to the adults.

“Mom, dad. Uncle Henry, Aunt Madge. Can Karl and me come down and show you something?”

The adults looked at each other and shrugged.

“OK, come on down,” Steve answered.

Karl wasn’t even aware that Peter was leading him by the hand until they were nearly at the bottom of the stairs and Karl tried to run back up.

“No, trust me. It’ll be OK,” Peter said soothingly.

The adults were stunned when the boys walked into the den. They were also acutely aware that any false move on their part could seriously damage Karl, who looked to be under severe stress.

“Um,” Peter said, “Karl saw my diapers and stuff and he asked if he could try them out? Is it OK?”

“What do you say, Karl?” his Uncle Steve asked.

“Well, I…” Karl said hesitantly. “It’s OK, I guess.”

“Really?” his father asked.

“Yeah, only… it wasn’t exactly like that. I didn’t see Peter’s things. I went into your closet and found your picture book and the other stuff.”

“We know,” his father answered. “That’s what we’ve been talking about for the last hour.”

“Am I in trouble?” he asked.

“We’ll talk about your sneaking around our room when we get home. Right now, I think I’m the one who owes you an explanation.”

“And me, too,” his Uncle Steve said magnanimously.

The story didn’t take very long to tell.

When Karl’s dad was a little boy, he had a lot of trouble with bladder control, especially when he was nervous or under stress. Coupled with this, he was small for his age and the constant butt of teasing and meanness from his peers in school. This led to a series of embarrassing pants wetting incidents. Eventually, the school psychologist recommended that Henry wear protection to school to help mask any accidents and to help him build up confidence that his problem was manageable. (He already wore diapers to bed at night and he understood that waking up in a wet diaper was a lot better than waking up in a cold and wet bed.) This strategy worked well for over a year and the other children seemed to have forgotten about his problem.

Then, one day near the end of fifth grade, his former tormentors discovered that he had been secretly wearing diapers and plastic pants. (One of them recognized the distinctive half-moon marks on Henry’s pants where his plastic pants had leaked.) Henry was devastated and his daytime and nighttime wetting became much worse. He started begging his parents not to send him to school in diapers. Then, his younger brother, Stevie, (who was in the fourth grade but was just as big as any fifth grader) took matters into his own hands.

Stevie knew his bother’s pride would be hurt if he took it upon himself to simply beat up the kids who were tormenting Henry. So, he decided to make himself a target of their taunting. He secretly wore Henry’s diapers to school one day and wet them until the plastic pants began to leak. During recess, he made himself obvious and, just as he had planned, one of Henry’s tormentors saw his wet pants and began mocking him. Stevie wanted to provoke a fight so he retorted by calling the kid (who was slightly overweight) ‘a stinky tub of cheese’. That did it. The two of them started mixing it up, which drew a large crowd including Henry. Stevie was obviously winning the fight so one of the allies of the ‘stinky tub of cheese’ picked up a rock with the intention of throwing it at Stevie. Henry saw this and was emboldened to come to the aid of his younger brother. He grabbed the rock out of the kid’s hand and started rolling around in the dirt with him. Henry wasn’t sure exactly what happened but before he knew it, the other kid was crying and begging him to stop. Just then a teacher came along and put an end to the whole thing. Henry and Stevie came out of it with the reputation of being kids who shouldn’t be messed with. Also, since it appeared that they both suffered from the same problem, it warned others that messing with one brother meant having to answer to both brothers.

Their parents were not at all pleased with their behavior but they grudgingly admitted that Stevie had probably ended the tormenting of his brother for good. Stevie, however, insisted that Henry had solved his own problem by taking on that other kid. Regardless of which view was correct, they were still left with a dilemma. Should they allow Stevie to continue wearing diapers to keep up the illusion that both boys were dependent upon them? After much discussion, it was decided to let Stevie continue wearing them through the end of the school year. What they hadn’t counted on was Stevie actually liking to wear them. They soon discovered that he didn’t seem to care who saw him in his diapers. They also discovered that Henry became more relaxed about them, too. In the end, they let their boys do as they pleased and the photo albums were the result.

Karl had trouble sorting out his feelings. He felt sad that his dad had been picked on, proud that his uncle had come to his rescue, and giddy that he had a story that he could use against his dad if he himself ever got involved in a fight at school. Everyone was staring at him, waiting for his reaction.

“You had a fight at school?” he asked his father in amazement. “What did grandpa and grandma do to you?”

Karl’s dad and uncle suddenly looked sheepish.

“Go ahead, boys. Answer the question,” Madge said smugly.

“We got punished, of course,” Henry answered.

“How?” his wife pressed.

Henry hesitated.

“We may as well tell him,” Steve cut in. “He’s the only one here who doesn’t know.”

“Doesn’t know what?” Karl asked impatiently.

“Doesn’t know that our dads got spanked!” Peter said gleefully.

“Peter, let dad and Uncle Henry tell the story,” Peter’s mom said.

“Spanked!” Karl exclaimed. “But you were in the fifth grade!”

“Grandpa was really strict in those days,” Karl’s dad explained. “He was really mad at us. He said that we’d embarrassed him in the neighborhood and at work, especially since the ‘stinky tub of cheese’ was the son of one of grandpa’s coworkers.”

“But I got the worst of it,” Steve said with a large measure of pride. “Grandpa gave me thirty-five swats because it was my idea and your dad only got twenty-five.”

Karl couldn’t resist giggling at the thought of his dad and uncle being spanked.

“What’ so funny?” Karl’s dad asked.

“You really got spanked?”

“Yes,” Karl’s uncle answered. “And then grandma oversaw the rest of our punishment. We got a one-day suspension from school and grandma made us spend all day weeding her gardens… in just our diapers.”

Karl’s dad and his Uncle Henry began laughing.

“What’s so funny?” Karl wondered.

“After school let out, Leo, a friend of Uncle Steve’s, came by on his bicycle. He was so surprised to see us out in the front yard in diapers that he lost control and slammed into a tree.”

“Really!” Karl’s Aunt Helen chided. “You guys should be ashamed of yourselves… making fun of that poor boy. He could have been seriously hurt.”

“I guess you’re right,” Karl’s dad agreed, “but the look on his face… well, it was priceless!”

“Whatever,” Steve said, bringing the discussion to an end. Then, turning his attention to Peter he said, “ Why don’t you go back upstairs and get Karl set up with enough stuff to last him two or three days?”