Forms for Schools, Summer Camps, and Pediatrics

I found this summer camp form to be extremely interesting: http://i.imgur.com/M6J8b.jpg

Does anybody have any like it?

Vivian Bien

Why the heck do they need to examine male genitals and note whether they are circumcised or not?!

My knowledge of American summer camps is limited, but I understand it might involve some form of physical exercise, and so I can understand some medical risk assessment being made. I can agree with an assessment of fitness and weight measurement, heart and lung check, and noting signs of marfans syndrome, scoliosis etc. There is no harm with some preventative checks, and these can sometimes be life savers - but for this summer camp purpose I do not see any medical need to intrude on male genitals, never mind labelling individuals as circumcised or uncircumcised.

Someone enlighten me if I'm mistaken, but the whole, I get the impression that summer camp culture in the USA is a legacy of the 1950s as a preparation for forced military service during those times. If so, surely it does not need to continue along those lines today.

I used to have a spot on my form for circumcision or uncirc. for my male go go dancers. The form had to be completed before they could go go dance at a club.

The general health information I had to have completed by my family physician before enrolling at Penn State (in 1967) included -- among many other things -- whether a male student had been circumcised.

My knowledge of American summer camps is limited, but I understand it might involve some form of physical exercise, and so I can understand some medical risk assessment being made.

Generally, they want to make sure that participants are healthy. While the child is at camp, the camp staff are responsible for the child's wellbeing, and just like most schools, require a physical exam to insure the participant is healthy enough to participate in activities or so that they know what the camper's limitations are.

Someone enlighten me if I'm mistaken, but the whole, I get the impression that summer camp culture in the USA is a legacy of the 1950s as a preparation for forced military service during those times.

Outdoor summer camps date back well before the 1950's, and generally have nothing to do with military service. They were recreational.

During brief periods the United States has had a military draft, but to my knowledge the 1950's wasn't one of those times.

Doc

I know my school's physical forms asked for that information, but I don't know that any sleep away camp forms were ever that detailed. I know my genitals were looked at during the exams, but I don't remember that information ever being on the form for camp.

Someone enlighten me if I'm mistaken, but the whole, I get the impression that summer camp culture in the USA is a legacy of the 1950s as a preparation for forced military service during those times. If so, surely it does not need to continue along those lines today.

There is indeed something in that statement. The same would apply for some YMCA activity, such as nude swimming used to be, in part, an acclimatization to the lack of privacy in military life.

The thing is though, that people living in the US won't experience it or think of summer camps in that manner. It becomes more apparent and more obvious once you've lived in other countries, especially those countries that have never made much of a fuss about the military or that don't have a long military tradition.

Thinking back on the days of the Cold War, it was my impression that Soviet youth organizations were also somewhat heavy on military preparedness and training. Belgium is about as un-military as a country can get in general attitude. Others, like France or Spain fall in somewhere in between. A traditional joke in French schools is that gym teachers are all too often former professional military (teaching is a good supplement to their military pension) and bring their attitudes about discipline and physical preparedness along with them to the schools. If the gym teacher was a former Legionnaire or paratrooper - well, look out. No pity to be expected ... ha ha.

In Spain a few years ago, an old fashioned Falangist type youth group from the Franco era, set up camp near a camping grounds we were staying. They too stressed military style activities in a way that most other modern Spaniards found laughable. You'd get the National Hymn in the morning and at night (a jaunty tune to be sure but it is still too related to the dictatorship for many people), long drawn-out salutes to the flag, military uniforms of course - Requétist berets, short black pants, khaki shirts with military pockets and braiding. Plus there was a rather disturbing religious element added, with calling out rosters of names of Falangist 'martyrs' from the Civil War, particular saints and such. They were also accompanied by black clad, long robed priests of a most sinister looking type, mean-eyed and glaring, they looked like modern day Inquisitors or those types who tend to Franco's monumental tomb in the Valley of the Fallen. The military tradition is still alive in certain circles of youth groups indeed.

During brief periods the United States has had a military draft, but to my knowledge the 1950's wasn't one of those times..

The war time draft ended in 1947, but in 1948 a new version of the military draft was approved. All males 18 years and older had to register with Selective Service. All males between the ages of 19 to 26 were eligible to be drafted for a service requirement of 21 months. Being called up depended for a great deal on the international situation and the need for troops at any particular time. The draft as an obligation for all able bodied males was appended in 1969 when a lottery was instituted instead - relying on random chance for being called up, but in theory every able bodied male was still eligible.

It wasn't until 1973 that an all volunteer military was created in the US, further amended in 1975 that ended all compulsory registering for military service.

I don't know how old you are or when you grew up, but all my youth in the 1950s and the 1960s, even when living in Belgium, was let's, say overshadowed by the possibility of being drafted into the military at any given time. Before the Vietnam war, in the 1950s, it was the idea of taking part in the third sequel of 20th century wars, in the Atomic Age. When Vietnam started then the overriding concern was being sent to SE Asia.

If you had grown up in the 1950s and then compared it to now, or especially pre 9/11 times, then you'd realize there is a huge gap between attitudes towards the military and being prepared to serve. Back then it was a given. Now it is far far less so. Back then it was a citizen's army and now it is a volunteer (some would say mercenary) army. Huge difference in how that relates to the general public and youngsters growing up.

You can get more info here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_Service_System

I found this summer camp form to be extremely interesting: http://i.imgur.com/M6J8b.jpg

Does anybody have any like it?

Where did you find the form?

I have always wanted to find a form with details about the genitalia which this form has. From the first time I learned about circumcision and saw a couple of uncircumcised boys, I wanted my exam forms to include circumcision status. I did not know about Tanner stages as a child and adolescent, but I am sure none of the forms I had to submit included it. If Tanner staging had been included, I would have done research to learn about what it meant. My pediatrician completed many exam forms for me for sports and camps and none of them had this level of detail regarding my genitals. In fact, none of them even had the items "penis" or "testicles." They all had the item "genitalia, include hernia (males only)."

I find this form to be a real turn on, especially since it is intended to be completed by the camp nurse. It is totally unnecessary for a summer camp to know the circumcision status of campers. Tanner stage seems of marginal significance too. All they need to add is penile dimensions to give the reader a complete mental image of the camper's genitalia. It is a great form if the camp director is a pervert and wants to know abut the penises and pubertal development of all the campers. The other great feature is that the embarrassing information contained on the form is just for the boys.

That is quite detailed.

The war time draft ended in 1947, but in 1948 a new version of the military draft was approved. All males 18 years and older had to register with Selective Service. All males between the ages of 19 to 26 were eligible to be drafted for a service requirement of 21 months. Being called up depended for a great deal on the international situation and the need for troops at any particular time. The draft as an obligation for all able bodied males was appended in 1969 when a lottery was instituted instead - relying on random chance for being called up, but in theory every able bodied male was still eligible.

It wasn't until 1973 that an all volunteer military was created in the US, further amended in 1975 that ended all compulsory registering for military service.

That is excellent, Agracier, and thank you. I had intended to do some research into this, but you have saved me the job. Clearly the system of drafting was altered some years earlier than I had believed.

Your own comments and the response from docinny45 seem to confirm what I have long suspected; that the American summer camp culture has been promoted as being recreational and for personal development, while its real underlying purpose is preparation and acclimatisation for future military service. It might be suggested that since 1975, it is more of a 'taster' for potential future military service - possibly a range of activities intended to tempt the young, males in particular, into joining the armed forces as a voluntary career.

I disagree that summer camps are intended as a gateway to military service in the United States. I think they're use is to get the kids out of the parents hair for a brief time! As for the draft, my draft number was #365. I would have been the last to go if I hadn't already been in medical school. Four years earlier, all med school grads were subject to the draft. It was not my intention to ever go to Vietnam.

Oh of course, getting the kids out of the way is definitely another reason for the summer camps. I can understand this very well, not only for parents but for their neighbourhoods as a whole. Juvenile nuisance certainly increases during school holidays in the UK, and I would expect that to be true in the USA also.

As regards the military service preparation argument, I'm sure this would never have been stated openly. All I am suggesting is that the intention would be there regardless of whether or not the public realised it.

I really can't think of a reason why circumcision status would be necessary ... but then again I'm circumcised. Would it be to ensure that non-circumcised campers are thoroughly cleaning?

Liquidsky: I think that one reason for compulsory physical education in schools (with lots of athletics such as running) and for boy scouts was to get youth that was physically fit for going into military service.

This is not to say that this has been a conscious thought to the present day nor that it was the only reason.

I love how non residents of the US are such experts about this subject. I disagree that PE is intended to prepare students for the military. The exception, of course, are military themed high school and perhaps ROTC (reserve officer training corps) programs.

It's not a problem, Liquidsky. Obviously there is no definitive answer and it is subjective and open to individual interpretation.

I merely state that to an outsider looking in, this is how it might appear.

WW I began conscription that continued through WW II, Korea, S.E. Asia and through the Cold War. In early 1941, my father was required to complete one year of compulsory service in the Army, as were all able bodied men at that time. Just before his year was up, Pearl Harbor was bombed and he was extended for the duration of the war.

Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts are NOT to prepare for military service. It was thought that having skills in gaining merit badges was a good thing to know for first aid, camping out, wilderness living and for the development of child's character and for the spiritual aspects of "good, clean living".

I was sent to YMCA summer camps for 2 weeks. This gave my folks time to themselves to do whatever they wanted. It also gave me my first experience being away from my home. We had many 8-9 yr. old boys in my cabin who cried at night, due to missing their parents. While I was at camp, I didn't have a BM for 2 weeks. I was afraid of the ancient toilets that flushed non-stop when you sat on them. I would not see the camp nurse, cause I KNEW she would get her irrigator and give me a large soapy enema. When I got home, I pulled out a hard stool that was stuck half way out of me. I used my fingers to yank it out, cause it hurt so badly.

Sorry to be snappy. I think a lot of the impetus for PE was from John Kennedy's fifty mile walk program fifty plus years ago. Myself , I think physical exercise is one of the true great joys in life. There is nothing that can compare to paddling to the point of exhaustion to make a perfect twelve foot wave at Laniakea!

Again Liquidsky, it's not a problem. It dawned on me a minute ago that you were responding more to Pecan's post than mine.

I am actually a big proponent of physical exercise myself. Obviously I am keen on the health benefits and the advantages of good physical development. As I am also a firm believer that a healthy body is likely to promote a sharp and healthy mind, this is another reason for good physical exercise.

I personally have my long passion for martial arts and you have your surfing. We do these things to reach the same place, only we go by different routes.

It was PN I was responding to.

I want to add a little bit of enlightment on the reason Juliette Gordon Low "Daisy" founded the Girl Scouts of USA in 1912. It was her intention to reach girls across the USA regardless of class, culture disabilities, and ethnic boundaries; to give a girl a chance to grow to their full potential and develop their leadership skills.

I had the honor of being a leader for many years and I can tell you it was one of the most rewarding experiences I ever had . When you can show a girl just how brave, smart , and successful they can be it lets them know they can achieve their dreams no matter what they are.

We had many girls for whatever reason ( single parents , foster care , poverty or just very busy making ends meet etc) that would not have been able to be introduced to the fine arts, sports , team work , volunteering , taking care of themselves , learning skills, and just plain positive experiences that bring out their each unique talents . To this day the Girl Scouts of USA continues with Daisy's dream to empower all girls.

I went to a number of Boy Scout camps in the 80s and never saw a form asking for that much detail pertaining to the penis/testes/scrotum.

I wonder what kind of camp this is for. The fact that there is no logo leads me to believe it was probably a smaller, independent summer camp. Definitely not affiliated with Boy Scouts, JROTC or anything like that.

And for the record, I never thought being in the Boy Scouts was any type of preparation for military service. Robert Baden-Powell, founder of Boy Scouts back in 1910, borrowed liberally from military and American Indian skills and tradition when designing his program. But there's no official ties between Scouting and the military. We were never contacted or recruited by the military. And looking back, I don't think I ever fired anything more powerful than a BB gun while in Boy Scouts.

Nice Bridgette! As for the original post, circumcision status? How patently stupid!

Djboy,

I would really enjoy hearing about the physical exams you require for your dancers. Are they required to visit a specific doctor? Do/did you design the forms? Do you get to request from the doctor how the exam will be completed? All sounds VERY interesting!

I do not get it. Why do go go dancers need to be checked if they are circumcised or not? If they had piercings in their penises I could understand it needing checking because maybe they would get injured but a foreskin is not going to be a problem for dancing is it? This is just silly.

^^^ Got that in one Amethyst... There is absolutely NO reason why a person can demand such information of another whether you are an Employer or Not ...Secondly any reputable Doctor would simply ignore a pre-prepared form or throw it in the bin unless it were AMA or Board Of Examiners approved which I highly doubt....Additionally there is such a thing as the Privacy Act to consider let alone potential Discriminatory issues

I do not get it. Why do go go dancers need to be checked if they are circumcised or not? If they had piercings in their penises I could understand it needing checking because maybe they would get injured but a foreskin is not going to be a problem for dancing is it? This is just silly.

It's probably just an official 'excuse' for a bit of personal gratification. Nothing like being allowed to check out other people's genitals and making a big production out of it, while remaining sanctimoniously pious and serious about it ...